Former Vice President Mike Pence said Sunday on CNN’s State of the Union that President Donald Trump handled dictators with a “velvet glove” when a “hammer” was required — despite having no involvement in the discussions and likely no knowledge of what was said behind closed doors.

Jake Tapper, the show’s anchor, began: “You said last month that you thought President Trump was beginning to realize, ‘Vladimir Putin doesn’t want peace. Vladimir Putin wants Ukraine.’ As you noted, there was no ceasefire agreed to. President Trump seemed to indicate before the summit that that was what had to happen, or he said there would be very severe consequences. Since the summit, he’s dropped demands for an immediate ceasefire.

“Five Ukrainians were killed overnight. He’s telling people, you heard Witkoff say a peace deal, a larger peace deal can be reached quickly if Putin’s demands, which include Ukraine ceding control of the entire Donbas region to Russia, are met. What do you make of all that? I mean, there are observers out there, people who like Trump, people who are rooting for Trump, who think that Trump got played,” Tapper, who also wasn’t in the room for the negotiations, huffed.

Pence said, “Well, look, I, you know, I served alongside the president for four years. I know his style in dealing with these dictators. It’s the velvet glove. But I think the hammer needs to come, and it needs to come immediately. I think the president, as he welcomes President Zelenskyy to the Oval Office tomorrow, and a whole cast of our allies in Europe, are going to be joining him. I think at the same time, he ought to pick up the phone and ask Majority Leader John Thune to immediately pass the secondary sanctions bill that is supported by virtually everyone in the United States Senate.

“I think the combination of engagement, but also making it clear to Putin that we are prepared to take actions that would literally break his economy, even while we redouble our commitment to the security of Ukraine and to working closely with our European allies, is important,” Pence added.

He noted further: “Putin only understands strength. So while the president and his diplomatic team engage in this re-approach with Putin, and there seems to be interest in my judgment, Putin is not going to stop until he’s stopped.”

But Secretary of State Marco Rubio, who is much more intimately familiar with the situation, explained what was happening in a fiery interview with CBS News host Margaret Brennan after she attempted to claim she knew more about the situation than he did.

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